A most fantastic website, "Tribute to Hinduism" has this astounding page discussing air flight, nuclear war, and interstellar travel...right from their ancient Vedic literature approximately 2,500 years ago. A breath-taking read (click on Ol' Graybeard above). Hey, with a nice haircut and beard trimmed, he could make a very hot sugar daddy! Keep the handlebar! Does he have a water bed in that flying chariot; smoke-a the ganja? Wheeeee!
chief-thrac...@gay-bible.org Jan 3, 1:25 pm
Newsgroups: alt.arts.storytelling, alt.creative.writing, rec.arts.prose
From: chief-thrac...@gay-bible.org
Date: 3 Jan 2005 13:25:12 -0800
Subject: Re: I Wanna Be A Writer For The Best Queer Newspaper This Side Of Anti-Matter!
(Someone wrote:)
I was put off by the entire article. The whole idea of "religious" incentive to do the right thing gets me hot under the collar. Make no mistake, the author's ubiquitous use of "karmic debt" is just a way of proclaiming some moral high ground based on something "greater than self
(And I responded:)
Thank you for reading my article, regardless of your opinion. I presume you are referring to my critique of the hetero counter-culture...as that spoke of a karmic debt to be fulfilled. Yet the main article I posted in my message, did not mention karma at all, and yet seemed to elude your radar entirely. No comment on that piece, eh...just on whatever displeases you, it seems.
The way I see "karma", is the buildup of good or evil actions. Since Germany and Eastern Europe remained unresolved about Jewish people for many centuries...anti-semitism spilled over and went out of control, under the Nazi regime. (As did prejudices against other minorities.) The vast suffering caused by this, is the resulting karma of ignoring the plight of millions upon millions of decent people, for a long long time. The karmic result: Europe suffered terribly.
I see the same law of karma applying to gay issues. And you need not define "karma" as a religious tenet. It can easily be understood if you believe in a collective conscience, as well as consciousness. All wrongs eventually right themselves. We are our own judges and executioners (and rewarders).
By referring, over and over again, to karmic debt, the author is trying to align the rightness of his personal mission, gay rights, with some uber-human code of morality that only he can see clearly
Your analysis is essentially correct, minus your negative spin. I AM trying to align the rightness of my personal mission, with that of brave activists who came before me...be they queer or no. The term you coined "uber-human code of morality" is very negative in outlook. There is nothing super human about denouncing irrational persecution of an innocent minority, that's even sanctioned--whether tacit or public--by one's very own government, church, or other major institution.
I doubt I'm the only one that sees this code of morality clearly.
Human society is based on exclusion.
???? Too simplistic and blunt an answer. Society is based as much on exclusion, as it is on INclusion. Depends on the context of your subject matter.
A "counterculture" is nothing more than the rejects of a society.
Well if that's being a "reject", I'll proudly claim that title! I'd rather not identify with a highly violent and immoral majority. And when natural forces stress a species, and a minority spins off with a change in physiology...it becomes its own "counterculture" (or subspecies), does it not? And maybe, just maybe, today's counterculture becomes the mainstream, while the former majority dies off.
This struggle for gay recognition is no different than any other counterculture struggle. There have been many such struggles throughout history and many are still issues today
It IS different in a variety of ways...which makes our struggle for equality that much more difficult! For one, as a minority, we don't have the respect of being an ethnic group, if one defines ethnicity as requiring things like geographical origin, and particular cuisine. Because many societies are sex-phobic, then gay rights becomes a peculiarly stigmatized minority...since all other minorities are not scapegoated for their sexual practices.
There is no "karmic debt." There is only society - mankind's greatest achievement - and those who are not accepted within a society
Yet most societies act upon the laws of karmic debt, by imposing punishment on those who do wrong, particularly when it comes to damage of person or property. Yet you reject the idea of karmic debt, even though it is an aspect of mankind's greatest achievement.
Morality is irrelevant. Karma is irrelevant. It's just the nature of human society
Morality is far from irrelevant...it is only a matter of finding a base standard of values applicable to the entire species. One rule of human morality--no matter what belief system--is that it is wrong to intentionally act out a malicious idea that would do harm to another. Another rule is to always first try to resolve differences in a peaceable manner, rather than violent.
The sooner the author realizes that, the less angst he will have.
Nope, I don't suffer any angst except the pressure of living in a gay-hateful society.
You're so used to living in a homophobic society, you can't see the forest for the trees. This is not uncommon.
By your rationale, gays shouldn't bother to ever speak out against homophobic abuse...just let "culture" do its thing. News flash: civil disobedience, and speaking out against egregious wrongs, has always been a part of every culture, since culture came into existence.
But the weakest point you've made, is your main one: that I use "karma" repetitively in hopes of pressing my own agenda. In fact, I've referred to karmic law only twice. First, here (in the 2nd paragraph):
"Anyone involved in entertainment or the media, has a moral and karmic obligation to contribute towards getting rid of gay hatred."
And then here (in the 3rd-from-final paragraph):
"What I am saying now, is that you so-called liberal heteros of the counterculture are all very close to paying heavy karmic dues as a result of your willful, hetero-centered arrogance."
This is not a religious belief. It is, however, spiritual...which I do believe in, and very strongly. If, however, this is drivel to you, I have no case to argue...our differences vary too widely to have any relevant debate. I do not believe morality is relative, just because different cultures exist with different ways of perceiving the world, including as regards morality.
I believe in a basic, essential morality that applies to the entire human race, no matter what one's beliefs. The base rule is the Golden Rule, if you wish to use a generic term. Christians may claim to own this concept, though such conscious regard of another has been taught by wise women and men long before Christianity (or even Judaism) ever came into existence.
So I am simply raising the consciousness of those who read or hear of my writings: that gay people too, are part of this moral web, not to be excluded (for in so excluding, they become the de facto scapegoat for all others' crimes).
P.S.: So what about my piece "Gay Marriage By Any Other Name"? Did you find it right-on, over-the-top, or a mix of the two? I think the subtitle "Letter to the Pharisees" is a nice touch...by taking the context of Christian terminology and interpreting it to favor gay equality and freedom. In fact, that is one of my main goals as queer activist, and is why I call my site "The Final Testament", with a "gay-bible" URL.
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Lavender-Velvet Revolution
gay-bible.org
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